The thrill of victory and of course, the agony of defeat

While this blog entry is all about playing a certain trivia game, the video above is very appropriate.  The reason is that the issue is competition in playing this game.  Plus I love watching this video knowing that the man who spent years as the face of defeat is named Vinko Bogataj.

The game in question is an interactive trivia game played in bars and restaurants all over the U. S. run by NTN Buzztime.  Buzztime, formerly the NTN network offers live trivia for most of the afternoon and late into the evening.  Each weeknight has at least one "premium" game.  Tuesdays is Showdown.  Fridays is Spotlight.

Many people who play Buzztime choose to gather in groups (teams if you prefer) and combine their efforts, especially in these premium games, to post the best bar score.  At the end of each game, the rankings show the top 20 location scores (average of the top five boxes) and the top 20 individual scores.  So one person playing at a location by themselves is at a disadvantage in competing on the individual score board because the team efforts usually result in better scores on the individual as well as location rankings.  I give you this background so you'll better understand an exchange going on, on the Buzztime FB page.  Individual names have been removed

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OP - Can we designate "team" places versus "individual" places? People that share answers make it unfortunately unpleasant for those of us who play alone.

As others have explained, this is a longstanding problem.  I've been playing NTN for nearly 30 years now.  This is not a problem Buzztime can easily solve.  Nor is there a major clamoring for a solution.  I've known Responder1 and Responder3 for more than two decades.  All of us have played solo and on teams.  Premium games are frequently a team game.  It is also worth noting that just because a group teamed up to share answers, that doesn't necessarily mean your individual score will be better than that of any individual on that team, had they played alone.  This is one reason why designating locations as "team spots" is impractical.  I've seen situations where a group of people playing together were defeated by one individual in the same location, playing alone.

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Responder1 -  With all due respect, IMO there is nothing that can or should be done about this. FWIW, I play both as an individual and as part of various teams depending on where I am at that time. The ability to do both has been an integral part of these games.

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Responder2 - Why is it so unpleasant? just don't listen to them. You might have the right answer and they don't. I've played both individual and with teams for my entire 8+ year NTN "career," and team play doesn't necessarily guarantee victory.

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OP - It's not a matter of hearing them, it's that a solo player tries to do their best and be able to look back at a to score later on the top board and enjoy the accomplishment. When a team plays against you, even if one of the players only tops you by one point, it's like your score never existed. It's disappointing. Sorry that you don't understand that.

Your score doesn't cease to exist.  You simply didn't have the top individual score.  On nights where team play is frequent, the fact your score was topped by another cannot be seen by you at the moment as resulting from another individual besting you, or from a team effort.  You have to look at the comprehensive results that are only visible on the Buzztime website to make an accurate conclusion about this.

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Brian Milinsky Perhaps trivia played using a national network where most players gather in bars in groups isn't the right choice for you. Especially if this bothers you so much.

What I was attempting to communicate here, albeit ineffectively, is that when you know teams are combining efforts and you don't like having to face the handicap of playing on your own against them, perhaps you need to change your perspective.  The system isn't going to change.  So accept this, gripe about it good-naturedly and enjoy yourself as you play.

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Buzztime All opinions are welcome, but please play nice

 

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Brian Milinsky Buzztime so you're saying it isn't nice to suggest that maybe playing a game where there is, has been and probably always will be "team" play is not the best game for someone who is bothered by such play?

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OP - No, I think what Buzz is trying to say is that suggesting that if I don't like it, that I should leave is not the only answer. There may not be an answer, but I'm sure they would be disappointed to lose a player that had been making use of the game for well over 20 years since the NTN tan box days.

 

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Responder1 - Wondering if the Buzztime site where the OP plays is the only one in that area. If not, then maybe playing at a site that doesn't have teams playing might work.

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Responder1 - Understood. Apparently there are choices there. Other than to suggest trying to figure out where those teams play and then try not to play where they are, there seems to be no other solution. Best of luck to you; while it may not sound like the other posters in this thread have understood your situation, turns out that I am familiar with all of them and believe me, they and I do.

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Brian Milinsky Let me draw an analogy to make what I was trying to say clearer. We are all playing golf. The courses are identical. The difficulty is identical. But the rules allow those who choose to team up to play in best-ball format. Meaning that the five players who are teaming up each tee off, but only the best shot counts.

The USGA says that best ball is allowed, even though there are competitors involved who refuse to team up.

The rules aren't going to change. The choices for the solo player are to continue to compete and just do their best, take up a different version of the game, where team play isn't allowed or...

Unless the people who make the rules are open to/able to make changes in those rules, is there a third choice?

 

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Responder3 - I'm not aware of any location where team play is in effect at all times. Usually teams meet at a specific time on a specific day or days; they meet to play some of the premium games. It is relatively easy to find a time of day when there is no team play even if it is a well-known "team play" location. The bottom line is that it shouldn't be difficult to find a location or time when individual play is the norm. Your issue seems to be with the monthly location scoreboard where team and individual high scores are mixed and not identified as such. That isn't going to change.

 

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OP -Here's another analogy. You've got a mountain. Five climbers are attempting to reach the summit. Maybe all are of average ability, but four are helping each other to reach the top. The fifth struggles, but manages to reach the top just after the four. The catch is that there is no recognition for the fifth that put more effort into the task, only for the the first of the four to reach the top. They all congratulate that person who finished first for how well they did. Of course the mountain won't change, but the team ethos still alienates the individual. - - - Everyone likes to see their scores in the listings that are carried day to day, or month to month. Teams help to remove that possibility for individuals.

Sorry, but your analogy misses the point.  People don't climb mountains to see who can achieve the summit in the shortest amount of time.  Well, they do, but individuals don't enter competitions where team play is allowed and expect to be able to compete against those team players successfully.

 

Therein lies the problem.  Buzztime is a game designed for both team and individual play.  The owners of the game have been confronting this problem for decades, without resolution.

 

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Responder1 - To add to what Responder3 said, Buzztime (or as some us still remember them, NTN) has been well aware of this issue for, say, twenty years or so. They seem to have concluded that there is nothing they can do about this. Even if Buzztime were to require that players identify themselves as team or individual before games start, there is no guarantee that all players will do so.

 

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OP - Simply because a system can't change, doesn't mean that one cannot relate it's frustration with how some use it. Thanks for all your empathy everyone. Have fun alienating the individuals. Pat yourselves on the back a few times for me, would you?

 

Your original post didn't appear to be an attempt to find empathy.  You posed a question and made a complaint.  People responded to your post and empathized with the problem.  Pointed out it has been around for a long time and probably won't go away.  Pointed out that they've dealt with this problem themselves for some time.

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Responder1 - OP, most if not all of us are very familiar with your situation. None of us seem to have even implied that you cannot express your frustration. However, the reality is that this situation can be overcome (though, of course, not easily). Some, including myself, don't let that situation overwhelm them. In my case, there have been plenty of times in my 20+ years of banging away at these games when my solo score was higher than that of a group (which, to say the least, frustrated them plenty).

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This is an age old issue and there isn't any advice better than you get from Responder1 and Responder3.  Legends of the game.

 

Could not agree more regarding Responders 1 and 3.  They true legends of the game and their responses were attempts to commiserate and offer advice and solace.  You describe them, perhaps because of my first post, as lacking empathy  Fair enough.

 

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My additional comments are in italics in response to those of the other posters to this thread.  Let me supplement those comments with the following.  Years ago NTN had an annual Oscar trivia game.  One year I teamed up with three friends to play this game.  We wound up with the highest bar score.  I happened to be a bit faster on one question out of the entire game, causing my individual score to be the highest.  I did enjoy having the high score, mostly because it meant a month or so of seeing the PPlus handle FDAVTV appearing regularly on the boards.

DAVETV was an amazingly obnoxious individual player.  But nowhere near as disturbing as one who used the handle POMOJO.  This assclown would go to a bar, reset the game to the East Coast feed, write down the answers and then go play that game again on the West Coast feed.  I created a FPMOJO handle and gave out the password.  Within a few months, that handle had over 2 million P+ points.  That's how universally loathed he was.

I've played the game solo.  I've played the game in a team setting.  Sometimes just me and one other player, trying frantically to get the right answer onto all six or seven boxes we were playing.

I do empathize.  I just don't understand why this is so important.  It's great to be #1.  But if I'm #2 and I lost out to a #1 that resulted from team play, it doesn't lessen my enjoyment of the game and the effort.  Buzztime shouldn't be considered subject to the Vince Lombardi dictum that second place is just first loser.  It's for fun.