Response to a Friend
A friend, someone with whom I enjoy discussing issues, who does so thoughtfully and without rancor, wrote the following on FB in response to my question about who is restricting prayer in public.
"Brian, they not only took out prayers in school but stopped "a moment of silence" all together. There has been a battle to take out "one Nation under God" for ever. When a person is seen preaching the word of God he/she is looked at as "a Bible thumper", or wierd and they cross the street. In the Court system we no longer Swear on the Bible " so help you God"...and when Bush tried to pass the Waiver law so people could be granted the right to take their tax money and use it towards a private education instead of funding the public schools AND then pay for a private education; It went down in flames. The Public viewed it as "Funding those Christians"... how ignorant. It was a CHOICE to let ANYONE have the chance to educate their children how they wanted. It had nothing to do with forcing Christianity on anyone....the list goes on and on. So, I ask again, where are the Christian Rights?"
Let's take these one at a time. It's a misnomer that prayer is prohibited in public schools. It isn't permitted when class is in session Students can pray individually or in groups on school grounds at the school flagpole, on the bus, in corridors and in classrooms before/after classes. Prayers are permissible at school-sponsored sports events as well. Because of the doctrine of the separation of church and state, it is unconstitutional for their to be prayer during class sessions in public schools.
I'll come back to preaching in a moment. In the court system if a witness wants to swear on the Bible before taking the stand they can do so. Not everyone believes in the Bible, so witnesses have the option to affirm rather than taking a sworn oath, that they will tell the truth. Would it be fair to force an atheist or agnostic to swear on a Bible to tell the truth? Obviously not.
It isn't the place of the federal government to legislate school vouchers because they don't fund the public schools. The states do. Milwaukee, WI has had vouchers in place since 1990 and as of 2011 had 15,000 students using vouchers. The question becomes, if school vouchers are used for private, religious education, is the doctrine of separation of church and state being violated? In an Ohio case the federal courts initially ruled that the voucher program there violated that doctrine. It cited the fact that most of the vouchers were being used to fund Catholic school education as a factor in the decision. SCOTUS overturned that ruling. I'm opposed to vouchers. They basically become a tax subsidy for the children of the well-off who for the most part aren't going to participate in the public school system in any event. Public schools offer an education for all, without regard to qualifications or faith. If you want faith-based education you should pay for it.
Now let's get back to preaching. If people want to label those who proselytize as "Bible-Thumpers" that's their right under the same First Amendment protections that allow the proselytizers to preach. Freedom of speech isn't absolute. We also need to recognize that the First Amendment only limits the government's ability (at all levels) to infringe on our free expression rights. I can't walk into a restaurant and start preaching anything. Well I can, but they can compel me to stop and if I refuse, to leave.
Christians are free to be the same as the rest of us. Practice your faith, preach your faith, worship as you wish, as long as you don't violate the same limitations as the rest of us. You can't refuse service in a public accomodation when doing so violates a person's civil rights. You can't discriminate in hiring, with some exceptions involving employment within religious institutions and involving bona fide occupational qualifications. Just as a religious school can't be forced to hire someone who doesn't adhere to their faith as a teacher, an advertiser can't be forced to hire a male model to model bikini swimwear.
I've been subjected to ridicule, rude comments and physical violence because of the faith I am no longer observant of. I can do nothing about the words and the ridicule. I no longer let if bother me. The physical violence I put a stop to myself. I respect the rights of all right up to the point where how they are exercising their rights begins to infringe on mine.
"Brian, they not only took out prayers in school but stopped "a moment of silence" all together. There has been a battle to take out "one Nation under God" for ever. When a person is seen preaching the word of God he/she is looked at as "a Bible thumper", or wierd and they cross the street. In the Court system we no longer Swear on the Bible " so help you God"...and when Bush tried to pass the Waiver law so people could be granted the right to take their tax money and use it towards a private education instead of funding the public schools AND then pay for a private education; It went down in flames. The Public viewed it as "Funding those Christians"... how ignorant. It was a CHOICE to let ANYONE have the chance to educate their children how they wanted. It had nothing to do with forcing Christianity on anyone....the list goes on and on. So, I ask again, where are the Christian Rights?"
Let's take these one at a time. It's a misnomer that prayer is prohibited in public schools. It isn't permitted when class is in session Students can pray individually or in groups on school grounds at the school flagpole, on the bus, in corridors and in classrooms before/after classes. Prayers are permissible at school-sponsored sports events as well. Because of the doctrine of the separation of church and state, it is unconstitutional for their to be prayer during class sessions in public schools.
I'll come back to preaching in a moment. In the court system if a witness wants to swear on the Bible before taking the stand they can do so. Not everyone believes in the Bible, so witnesses have the option to affirm rather than taking a sworn oath, that they will tell the truth. Would it be fair to force an atheist or agnostic to swear on a Bible to tell the truth? Obviously not.
It isn't the place of the federal government to legislate school vouchers because they don't fund the public schools. The states do. Milwaukee, WI has had vouchers in place since 1990 and as of 2011 had 15,000 students using vouchers. The question becomes, if school vouchers are used for private, religious education, is the doctrine of separation of church and state being violated? In an Ohio case the federal courts initially ruled that the voucher program there violated that doctrine. It cited the fact that most of the vouchers were being used to fund Catholic school education as a factor in the decision. SCOTUS overturned that ruling. I'm opposed to vouchers. They basically become a tax subsidy for the children of the well-off who for the most part aren't going to participate in the public school system in any event. Public schools offer an education for all, without regard to qualifications or faith. If you want faith-based education you should pay for it.
Now let's get back to preaching. If people want to label those who proselytize as "Bible-Thumpers" that's their right under the same First Amendment protections that allow the proselytizers to preach. Freedom of speech isn't absolute. We also need to recognize that the First Amendment only limits the government's ability (at all levels) to infringe on our free expression rights. I can't walk into a restaurant and start preaching anything. Well I can, but they can compel me to stop and if I refuse, to leave.
Christians are free to be the same as the rest of us. Practice your faith, preach your faith, worship as you wish, as long as you don't violate the same limitations as the rest of us. You can't refuse service in a public accomodation when doing so violates a person's civil rights. You can't discriminate in hiring, with some exceptions involving employment within religious institutions and involving bona fide occupational qualifications. Just as a religious school can't be forced to hire someone who doesn't adhere to their faith as a teacher, an advertiser can't be forced to hire a male model to model bikini swimwear.
I've been subjected to ridicule, rude comments and physical violence because of the faith I am no longer observant of. I can do nothing about the words and the ridicule. I no longer let if bother me. The physical violence I put a stop to myself. I respect the rights of all right up to the point where how they are exercising their rights begins to infringe on mine.
posted by me at 3:38 PM
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