The Franchise Four
As part of the festivities for the Major League Baseball All-Star game, MLB published the "Franchise Four," a list of some of the best players ever. Here is the list, with my comments on each section of it:
Greatest Living Players
Hank Aaron
Johnny Bench
Sandy Koufax
Willie Mays
I have no real issues with this grouping. There is a case to be made for Barry Bonds but considering his use of PEDs, he doesn't belong here. There is also a case to be made for Pete Rose but he's still banned for gambling so I don't consider him eligible.
Greatest Negro Leagues Players
Cool Papa Bell
Josh Gibson
Buck O'Neil
Satchel Paige
Buck O'Neil was a good player and after he hung up his spikes became baseball's first African-American scout. He signed Lou Brock among others. But as far as actual playing goes, I'd rank both Oscar Charleston and Pop Lloyd ahead of him.
Greatest Pioneers
Walter Johnson
Nap Lajoie
Christy Mathewson
Cy Young
Houston, we have a problem here. Nap Lajoie was a great player. But including him and omitting Tyrus Raymond Cobb is a travesty. They played in the same era of baseball for the most part, Cobb joining the majors only nine years after Lajoie. It was Cobb who made the stolen base an offensive weapon, setting records for single-season and career totals that weren't surpassed until decades later. Cobb remains holder of the record for highest career batting average. Cobb got more votes in the initial Baseball Hall of Fame voting than any other player. The other players in this group represent the three greatest pitchers in baseball during the first third of the 20th century and deserve to be here.
Angels
Vladimir Guerrero
Nolan Ryan
Tim Salmon
Mike Trout
I'd rank Jim Fregosi a fraction ahead of Mike Trout but only because it is so early in Trout's career. This is Trout's 5th season. At this rate he moves ahead of Fregosi on my list at the end of this season.
Astros
Jeff Bagwell
Lance Berkman
Craig Biggio
Nolan Ryan
No issues here.
Athletics
Dennis Eckersley
Jimmie Foxx
Rickey Henderson
Reggie Jackson
I have to rank Vida Blue ahead of Dennis Eckersley based on the fact that the A's won three World Series titles during Blue's time while winning only one during Eckersley's tenure with the team.
Blue Jays
Roberto Alomar
Joe Carter
Carlos Delgado
Roy Halladay
Limiting this list to only four players makes it difficult. Who would you remove from the above quartet to add Dave Steib or Pat Hentgen? I wouldn't touch this foursome.
Braves
Hank Aaron
Chipper Jones
Greg Maddux
Warren Spahn
Chipper Jones - 8 time All-Star, MVP award, 2 Silver Slugger awards and1 World Series title. Dale Murphy - 7 time All-Star, 2 MVP awards (in consecutive years no less), 4 Silver Slugger awards and 5 consecutive Gold Glove awaards. Tough call.
Brewers
Cecil Cooper
Rollie Fingers
Paul Molitor
Robin Yount
No issues here. The franchise has only been in existence since 1969.
Cardinals
Lou Brock
Bob Gibson
Rogers Hornsby
Stan Musial
If Grover Cleveland Alexander had spent more than four seasons with the Cards, he'd be in the mix here. Sans Earl Averill's line drive off of the foot of Dizzy Dean, the National League's last 30 game winner would be worthy of discussion. But the problem with the limit of only four is glaring here, as how can you exclude the Wizard of Oz, Ozzie Smith. 15 time All-Star, 13 Gold Gloves, a Silver Slugger award and a World Series title.
Cubs
Ernie Banks
Ryne Sandberg
Ron Santo
Billy Williams
From 1926 to 1930, Hack Wilson averaged 183 hits, 35 home runs and 142 RBIs for the Cubs. He belongs in the discussion. The omission of Fergie Jenkins is a travesty. Mordecai "Three-Finger" Brown is also worthy of mention.
D-backs
Paul Goldschmidt
Luis Gonzalez
Randy Johnson
Curt Schilling
No issues here.
Dodgers
Don Drysdale
Sandy Koufax
Jackie Robinson
Duke Snider
Again, this is really tough. Roy Campenella might have been the best catcher of all-time had his career not been tragically cut short. In his ten seasons he was the MVP three different times. But who do you omit to include him? Pee Wee Reese was a great on-field leader and an All-Star for ten consecutive seasons. But there are only four slots.
Giants
Barry Bonds
Willie Mays
Willie McCovey
Buster Posey
Christy Mathewson is listed among the pioneers so that's alright. But Bill Terry, Carl Hubbell, Mel Ott and Rube Marquard all deserve inclusion ahead of Buster Posey
Indians
Bob Feller
Tris Speaker
Jim Thome
Omar Vizquel
I tend to think of Tris Speaker as a member of the Red Sox, but he did play for a decade in Cleveland so that's fair. People have forgotten about Addie Joss for the most part, which is sad. Early Wynn however was a 300 game winner and belongs in the mix here.
Mariners
Ken Griffey Jr.
Felix Hernandez
Edgar Martinez
Ichiro Suzuki
No issues here.
Marlins
Jeff Conine
Mike Lowell
Gary Sheffield
Giancarlo Stanton
No issues here.
Mets
Keith Hernandez
Mike Piazza
Tom Seaver
David Wright
Jerry Koosman belongs in the conversation here.
Nationals/Expos
Gary Carter
Andre Dawson
Vladimir Guerrero
Tim Raines
No issues here.
Orioles
Jim Palmer
Cal Ripken Jr.
Brooks Robinson
Frank Robinson
Eddie Murray is another example of why four is too small a number for some of these clubs. Same for George Sisler.
Padres
Tony Gwynn
Trevor Hoffman
Randy Jones
Dave Winfield
No issues here.
Phillies
Richie Ashburn
Steve Carlton
Robin Roberts
Mike Schmidt
No issues here.
Pirates
Roberto Clemente
Bill Mazeroski
Willie Stargell
Honus Wagner
Where is Ralph Kiner? Bill Mazeroski was a defensive superstar and was part of two World Series champion teams; however, Kiner led the NL in home runs each of the seven seasons he was with the Pirates. He averaged 42 HRs a season during that run and led the majors in HRs for years 2 through 7 of that period.
Rangers
Adrian Beltre
Ivan Rodriguez
Nolan Ryan
Michael Young
No issues here.
Rays
Evan Longoria
David Price
James Shields
Ben Zobrist
No issues here.
Red Sox
Pedro Martinez
David Ortiz
Ted Williams
Carl Yastrzemski
I rank Tris Speaker way above David Ortiz. Ortiz has 2,232 hits with a career average of .283. Speaker had over 3,500 hits with a career average of .345. Ortiz can't field worth a damn. Speaker holds the MLB records for outfielders for career assists, unassisted double plays and double plays. Both have three World Series rings. It's no contest.
Reds
Johnny Bench
Barry Larkin
Joe Morgan
Pete Rose
Frank Robinson was recognized for his play with the Orioles and so while he had ten great seasons here, the four listed players are okay by me.
Rockies
Andres Galarraga
Todd Helton
Troy Tulowitzki
Larry Walker
No issues here.
Royals
George Brett
Dan Quisenberry
Bret Saberhagen
Frank White
No issues here.
Tigers
Miguel Cabrera
Ty Cobb
Hank Greenberg
Al Kaline
Charlie Gehringer is another example of why four is too few. Hall of Famer, 19 seasons (all with the Tigers), almost 2,900 hits, a career average of .320 and two consecutive game streaks that exceeded 500 games.
Twins
Rod Carew
Harmon Killebrew
Tony Oliva
Kirby Puckett
Burt Blyleven and Goose Goslin are worthy of being in the discussion.
White Sox
Harold Baines
Paul Konerko
Minnie Minoso
Frank Thomas
This may be the worst example here of the modern bias. Harold Baines was a really good player but never got even 7% of the votes on the Hall of Fame ballot. "Easy" Ed Walsh spent 13 seasons with the White Sox and was one of the most dominant pitchers in the game. He has the best career ERA for pitchers with more than five seasons at .182. His WHIP is the lowest ever. Nellie Fox spent 14 seasons with the Sox, was one of the finest 2nd basemen ever, 15 time All-Star, 3 Gold Gloves, 1959 AL MVP and the third most difficult hitter to strike out in baseball history. Eddie Collins was also a great 2nd basement decades earlier for the Sox, with 4 World Series Rings, 4 stolen base titles and the 1914 MVP. He had 3,314 hits. Luke Appling and Red Faber are also worthy of being in the mix here. And if Pete Rose belongs in any franchise four, then Shoeless Joe Jackson should be listed for the White Sox.
Yankees
Joe DiMaggio
Lou Gehrig
Mickey Mantle
Babe Ruth
I could name a second four here and still leave people out. Phil Rizzuto, Thurman Munson, Whitey Ford and Yogi Berra. Are the four players listed by the Franchise Four the best the Yankees ever had? Probably. Babe Ruth was the greatest player ever, no contest. His slugging percentage and OPS remain the highest ever. Among Hall of Fame pitchers with more than 100 decisions, his winning percentage is the second highest ever (he will drop to 3rd highest when Pedro Martinez is inducted into the HOF later this year).
This was fun!
Greatest Living Players
Hank Aaron
Johnny Bench
Sandy Koufax
Willie Mays
I have no real issues with this grouping. There is a case to be made for Barry Bonds but considering his use of PEDs, he doesn't belong here. There is also a case to be made for Pete Rose but he's still banned for gambling so I don't consider him eligible.
Greatest Negro Leagues Players
Cool Papa Bell
Josh Gibson
Buck O'Neil
Satchel Paige
Buck O'Neil was a good player and after he hung up his spikes became baseball's first African-American scout. He signed Lou Brock among others. But as far as actual playing goes, I'd rank both Oscar Charleston and Pop Lloyd ahead of him.
Greatest Pioneers
Walter Johnson
Nap Lajoie
Christy Mathewson
Cy Young
Houston, we have a problem here. Nap Lajoie was a great player. But including him and omitting Tyrus Raymond Cobb is a travesty. They played in the same era of baseball for the most part, Cobb joining the majors only nine years after Lajoie. It was Cobb who made the stolen base an offensive weapon, setting records for single-season and career totals that weren't surpassed until decades later. Cobb remains holder of the record for highest career batting average. Cobb got more votes in the initial Baseball Hall of Fame voting than any other player. The other players in this group represent the three greatest pitchers in baseball during the first third of the 20th century and deserve to be here.
Angels
Vladimir Guerrero
Nolan Ryan
Tim Salmon
Mike Trout
I'd rank Jim Fregosi a fraction ahead of Mike Trout but only because it is so early in Trout's career. This is Trout's 5th season. At this rate he moves ahead of Fregosi on my list at the end of this season.
Astros
Jeff Bagwell
Lance Berkman
Craig Biggio
Nolan Ryan
No issues here.
Athletics
Dennis Eckersley
Jimmie Foxx
Rickey Henderson
Reggie Jackson
I have to rank Vida Blue ahead of Dennis Eckersley based on the fact that the A's won three World Series titles during Blue's time while winning only one during Eckersley's tenure with the team.
Blue Jays
Roberto Alomar
Joe Carter
Carlos Delgado
Roy Halladay
Limiting this list to only four players makes it difficult. Who would you remove from the above quartet to add Dave Steib or Pat Hentgen? I wouldn't touch this foursome.
Braves
Hank Aaron
Chipper Jones
Greg Maddux
Warren Spahn
Chipper Jones - 8 time All-Star, MVP award, 2 Silver Slugger awards and1 World Series title. Dale Murphy - 7 time All-Star, 2 MVP awards (in consecutive years no less), 4 Silver Slugger awards and 5 consecutive Gold Glove awaards. Tough call.
Brewers
Cecil Cooper
Rollie Fingers
Paul Molitor
Robin Yount
No issues here. The franchise has only been in existence since 1969.
Cardinals
Lou Brock
Bob Gibson
Rogers Hornsby
Stan Musial
If Grover Cleveland Alexander had spent more than four seasons with the Cards, he'd be in the mix here. Sans Earl Averill's line drive off of the foot of Dizzy Dean, the National League's last 30 game winner would be worthy of discussion. But the problem with the limit of only four is glaring here, as how can you exclude the Wizard of Oz, Ozzie Smith. 15 time All-Star, 13 Gold Gloves, a Silver Slugger award and a World Series title.
Cubs
Ernie Banks
Ryne Sandberg
Ron Santo
Billy Williams
From 1926 to 1930, Hack Wilson averaged 183 hits, 35 home runs and 142 RBIs for the Cubs. He belongs in the discussion. The omission of Fergie Jenkins is a travesty. Mordecai "Three-Finger" Brown is also worthy of mention.
D-backs
Paul Goldschmidt
Luis Gonzalez
Randy Johnson
Curt Schilling
No issues here.
Dodgers
Don Drysdale
Sandy Koufax
Jackie Robinson
Duke Snider
Again, this is really tough. Roy Campenella might have been the best catcher of all-time had his career not been tragically cut short. In his ten seasons he was the MVP three different times. But who do you omit to include him? Pee Wee Reese was a great on-field leader and an All-Star for ten consecutive seasons. But there are only four slots.
Giants
Barry Bonds
Willie Mays
Willie McCovey
Buster Posey
Christy Mathewson is listed among the pioneers so that's alright. But Bill Terry, Carl Hubbell, Mel Ott and Rube Marquard all deserve inclusion ahead of Buster Posey
Indians
Bob Feller
Tris Speaker
Jim Thome
Omar Vizquel
I tend to think of Tris Speaker as a member of the Red Sox, but he did play for a decade in Cleveland so that's fair. People have forgotten about Addie Joss for the most part, which is sad. Early Wynn however was a 300 game winner and belongs in the mix here.
Mariners
Ken Griffey Jr.
Felix Hernandez
Edgar Martinez
Ichiro Suzuki
No issues here.
Marlins
Jeff Conine
Mike Lowell
Gary Sheffield
Giancarlo Stanton
No issues here.
Mets
Keith Hernandez
Mike Piazza
Tom Seaver
David Wright
Jerry Koosman belongs in the conversation here.
Nationals/Expos
Gary Carter
Andre Dawson
Vladimir Guerrero
Tim Raines
No issues here.
Orioles
Jim Palmer
Cal Ripken Jr.
Brooks Robinson
Frank Robinson
Eddie Murray is another example of why four is too small a number for some of these clubs. Same for George Sisler.
Padres
Tony Gwynn
Trevor Hoffman
Randy Jones
Dave Winfield
No issues here.
Phillies
Richie Ashburn
Steve Carlton
Robin Roberts
Mike Schmidt
No issues here.
Pirates
Roberto Clemente
Bill Mazeroski
Willie Stargell
Honus Wagner
Where is Ralph Kiner? Bill Mazeroski was a defensive superstar and was part of two World Series champion teams; however, Kiner led the NL in home runs each of the seven seasons he was with the Pirates. He averaged 42 HRs a season during that run and led the majors in HRs for years 2 through 7 of that period.
Rangers
Adrian Beltre
Ivan Rodriguez
Nolan Ryan
Michael Young
No issues here.
Rays
Evan Longoria
David Price
James Shields
Ben Zobrist
No issues here.
Red Sox
Pedro Martinez
David Ortiz
Ted Williams
Carl Yastrzemski
I rank Tris Speaker way above David Ortiz. Ortiz has 2,232 hits with a career average of .283. Speaker had over 3,500 hits with a career average of .345. Ortiz can't field worth a damn. Speaker holds the MLB records for outfielders for career assists, unassisted double plays and double plays. Both have three World Series rings. It's no contest.
Reds
Johnny Bench
Barry Larkin
Joe Morgan
Pete Rose
Frank Robinson was recognized for his play with the Orioles and so while he had ten great seasons here, the four listed players are okay by me.
Rockies
Andres Galarraga
Todd Helton
Troy Tulowitzki
Larry Walker
No issues here.
Royals
George Brett
Dan Quisenberry
Bret Saberhagen
Frank White
No issues here.
Tigers
Miguel Cabrera
Ty Cobb
Hank Greenberg
Al Kaline
Charlie Gehringer is another example of why four is too few. Hall of Famer, 19 seasons (all with the Tigers), almost 2,900 hits, a career average of .320 and two consecutive game streaks that exceeded 500 games.
Twins
Rod Carew
Harmon Killebrew
Tony Oliva
Kirby Puckett
Burt Blyleven and Goose Goslin are worthy of being in the discussion.
White Sox
Harold Baines
Paul Konerko
Minnie Minoso
Frank Thomas
This may be the worst example here of the modern bias. Harold Baines was a really good player but never got even 7% of the votes on the Hall of Fame ballot. "Easy" Ed Walsh spent 13 seasons with the White Sox and was one of the most dominant pitchers in the game. He has the best career ERA for pitchers with more than five seasons at .182. His WHIP is the lowest ever. Nellie Fox spent 14 seasons with the Sox, was one of the finest 2nd basemen ever, 15 time All-Star, 3 Gold Gloves, 1959 AL MVP and the third most difficult hitter to strike out in baseball history. Eddie Collins was also a great 2nd basement decades earlier for the Sox, with 4 World Series Rings, 4 stolen base titles and the 1914 MVP. He had 3,314 hits. Luke Appling and Red Faber are also worthy of being in the mix here. And if Pete Rose belongs in any franchise four, then Shoeless Joe Jackson should be listed for the White Sox.
Yankees
Joe DiMaggio
Lou Gehrig
Mickey Mantle
Babe Ruth
I could name a second four here and still leave people out. Phil Rizzuto, Thurman Munson, Whitey Ford and Yogi Berra. Are the four players listed by the Franchise Four the best the Yankees ever had? Probably. Babe Ruth was the greatest player ever, no contest. His slugging percentage and OPS remain the highest ever. Among Hall of Fame pitchers with more than 100 decisions, his winning percentage is the second highest ever (he will drop to 3rd highest when Pedro Martinez is inducted into the HOF later this year).
This was fun!
posted by me at 4:44 PM
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